Report of the Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress. : Appendix Volume VII. Minutes of evidence (111th to 122nd days) with appendix. England. (This volume contains the oral and written evidence of witnesses from various rural centres, especially in the south western, western, and eastern counties ; from the Parish of Poplar Borough, and from the National Conference of Friendly Societies.).

  • Great Britain. Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress.
Date:
1910
Catalogue details

Licence: In copyright

Credit: Report of the Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress. : Appendix Volume VII. Minutes of evidence (111th to 122nd days) with appendix. England. (This volume contains the oral and written evidence of witnesses from various rural centres, especially in the south western, western, and eastern counties ; from the Parish of Poplar Borough, and from the National Conference of Friendly Societies.). Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

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    Miss Louisa 71817. Nor what the effect on the medical profession Jebb. at large might be ?—No, I have not gone into those . things. 18 July, 1907. 71818. All those things you have not taken into ac- count ?—No. 71819. {Mrs. Bosanqud.) The previous witness told us you would be able to tell us about a women's benefit society that flourishes in EUesmere ?—Not a %vomen's benefit society ; it is mixed, men and women ; a society which admits women. It is mainly men, but it admits women. 71820. Is it a branch of one of the great societies ?— No ; it is an independent Shropshire provident society which was formed about fifty years ago ; and it has never got into the difficulties which other societies have got into. 71821. Does it include the farm labourers ?—Yes ; it includes anybody who wants to subscribe. I have brought a copy of the regulations with me. 71822. Do the women join it pretty freely ?—Pretty freely. There are a good many domestic servants in it. They are chiefly domestic servants, I believe. 71823. Do they keep it up after marriage ?—I think they have a difficulty, but I think they do it. If tliey have been in a certain number of yea^s, and feel that they are going to forfeit the benefits, they do make a struggle to keep in it. 71824. I suppose there are special benefits and special subscriptions for confinements ?—No, not for confin?- ments, they are excluded. 71825. About the nursing in your workhouse infirmary, are you satisfied with that ?—Not at all. 71826. Could you tell us in what way you think it is defective ?—We have one nurse, and we sometimes have as many as eight to ten men and eight to ten women in two big wards ; and these are chiefly very decrejiit old people. We have only one nurse ; she gets very little assistance indeed from the matron, who is getting old ; and necessarily this poor woman cannot sit up night and day, and the old people are left to themselves, jieople who cannot move themselves in bed. It always distresses me very much to see that going on. 71827. Is she a trained nurse ?—Yes, and a very good willing nuree. 71828. Do the pauper inmates sit up with them ?— I do not think, as a rule, anyone sits up unless something very bad is going on. Then someone is told off, but as a rule these people who are quite heljjless are by them- selves at night. 71829. You really require another nurse ?—I should say so. 71830. You speak about the bad cottage property in the district. Can you tell us anything about the sanitary inspection ; is that sufficient ?—We have a sanitary inspector, and he visits the houses, and he generally says nothing afterwards. He does not like to offend somebody or other, and it is not done ; nothing comes of it. It is most unsatisfactory, in my opinion. 71831. If he brought the questions before your board, would they take action, or is it that he does not bring the questions forward ?—He occasionally brings forward something, usually an insignificant person is tackled, not anybody of much significance is tackled. 71832. Can you suggest any remedy for that state of things ?—Not unless we had an entirely outside person with no comiection with the neighbourhood of any sort or descrijDtion, a person with no dependence upon anyone. 71833. As to the adequacy of the relief, do you think that in most cases you could say that the guardians' allowance of 2s. 6d. or 3s. is sufficient ?—I think it usually is, although there may be exceptions, because it is gener- ally given to old people who are living with sons and daughters, or something of that sort but, of course, it is very small. 71834. Supposing a case of proved insufficiency, would the guardians give more ?—I think they would if the case was represented to them. 71835. You think they would increase the allowance beyond their scale ?—I think they would. 71836. To change the subject altogether, are you Question» satisfied with the rural education as it now stands ? suitabilitj You speak, for instance, of food being unsuitabe and ''^^^ I badly cooked. Do you think the girls are properly ^'^^cationj educated for their work in life ?—No, I do not think as a rule they are. 71837. Should you like to see the system of education altered in any way ?—I should like to see more instruction given in those sort of domestic matters. 71838. Do you think the system is satisfactory for the boys ?—It is better for the boys. The boys work early on the farms, and so on, and learn their work, but there is very little or no instruction for the girls, really. 71839. You do not think boys are unsuited, for farm work by the sort of education they receive in schools ?—• No, I do not think that. 71840. (Dr. Downes.) Do you think that the girls are less acquainted with elementary housekeeping than they used to be ?—Very much less acquainted. 71841. In spite of our improved education ?—Yes, I think so. Anything in the shape of cooking classes have not reached us, which I believe there are in schools elsewhere. 71842. {Mr. Nunn.) Might I ask, in reference to Need of i paragraph 11, what results you think would come from prise visifc surprise visits to the workhouse at meal times ? What by Local! kind of disclosures would there be ?—I think that the Goverimi| guardians have not a sufficient supervision of those matters. It is very difficult to get access. They most of -^yoiklioul them live at a distance; they only come there as a rule on board days ; and the matter is left largely in the hands of the workhouse officials. 71843. You have not a visiting committee ? No. The only visiting committee we have is a visiting committee which goes round on board days '; but the moment is known. i| 71844. Are no surprise visits made by guardians ?— No. We have recently tried to get a few sui'prise visits made to the larder ; and I think they are doing good— inspection of meat, and so on. 71845. You are referring to the actual provisions at mealtimes ?—Yes, the cooking, and so on. I have not any definite cause of comj)laint, but I do hear of things. 71846. I suppose it is easier for guardians to visit more frequently than an inspector can, he has a very large district, of course ?—I do not see why an inspector should not frequently attend. 71847. But there are many guardians, and their area is smaller than an inspector's, is it not ?—Yes, that is so, but the guardians are very scattered in our case. 71848. Do you think you are sufficiently inspected ? Questioil Do you think your inspector has too wide an area to cover excessivif the ground efficiently ?—I think he has rather. Certainly size of Ll we see very little of him. J^°^eranl ■' Board ml 71849. Does he do much inspection of the actual work tors'disT of the relieving officer ?—I do not think so. Not that I tricts: a|i know of. He attends our boards occasionally, and sees of the in| what we do, and hears our proceedings. spectors 71850. Does he visit your board spontaneously, or when some matter comes up which requires his attention —No, it is spontaneously. He comes on surprise visits to the board. 71851. The guardians do not subscribe to the trained Failure' nurses, I gather ?—No. guardiai 71852. Have they been asked to ?—I do not think so. j^„i.s-i,„ I have never heard of it. Associat 71853. It has never been proposed that there should be an arrangement by which they should subscribe and u.^e their services ?—No ; because I think their hands are more than full; it would be futile. 71854. I did not gather from your reply to Mr. Booth Questii whether you think that a proper organisation of the dole substitu charities and voluntary charities would practically super- charity ssde outdoor rehef, if they were properly and skilfully out-relie organised ?—I do not think they would supersede it, but I think very many cases might be met and properly met, by a proper organisation of the charities, that are rather outside the present scope of the Poor Law.