Report of the Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress. : Appendix Volume VII. Minutes of evidence (111th to 122nd days) with appendix. England. (This volume contains the oral and written evidence of witnesses from various rural centres, especially in the south western, western, and eastern counties ; from the Parish of Poplar Borough, and from the National Conference of Friendly Societies.).

  • Great Britain. Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress.
Date:
1910
Catalogue details

Licence: In copyright

Credit: Report of the Royal Commission on the Poor Laws and Relief of Distress. : Appendix Volume VII. Minutes of evidence (111th to 122nd days) with appendix. England. (This volume contains the oral and written evidence of witnesses from various rural centres, especially in the south western, western, and eastern counties ; from the Parish of Poplar Borough, and from the National Conference of Friendly Societies.). Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

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    new 69885. That would mean a power to make a contribu- tion order upon some other authority who raised the for rates ?—I would have it put on a general fund for the county. and 69886. That would msan that they would have power &c. to call upon the county council to find the money through the county rate ?—Yes. The very poorest districts that want the most would be the least abJe to afford to provide it for themselves. I would have a uniform rate for the poor for the whole county. 69887. For this body ?—Yes, for this body, certainly. 69888. Now with reference to the committee in the respective districts which had to manage this matter, how would you select it ?—I would have this committee of so many for a district, or for the section of a county, nominated by the Local Government Board. 69889. In London ?—In London ; then I would have so many nominated by the county council, and so many nominated as representatives of the district councils. I would also make it a highly important and honourable thing to be upon it; and the number that I would have selected by the Poor Law authority, or by some central authority, should be such as would be able to form a very strong minority, if not a majority, as against those selected by the councils. 69890. Would you take the county area as the area ?— I should put the county area for the central authority and break it up into districts. 69891. That would simplify your rating ?—Yes. I would take the county area for all these purposes, that is to say, the administrative county, for of course there are borough counties, which is quite a different thing. 69892. Would there be any reason why you should not put what remained of the Poor Law under that same body ? You see if you do not you would have the cost of the guardians ?—Yes. 69893. Tlien your rural district councils and this addi- tional body ?—Yes. 69894. And I suppose your county council ?—Yes. 69895. Would there be any reason why you should retain the board of guardians at all ?—That is a question you must excuse my answering. 69896. If the boards of guardians remain on, it would mean an additional expense if you had this new authority to deal with part of their work ?—It would. 69897. And also if you suggest at the same time that these people should be compelled to pay, it would mean machinery very much like the present Poor Law machinery because, of course, inquiry would have to be made as to their circumstances before you could make any attempt to compel people to pay for what they got ?—Quite so ; I know all the difficulties. as 69898. That would mean officers to inquire into the house and the circumstances. Would it be tolerable that .^^ there should be a relieving officer going to a house with regard to a person who is in receipt of Poor Law relief, and immediately that person fell ill and wanted a medical officer that that medical officer should be sent by this y for other authority, and that then another officer should come in to inquire into the circumstances on account of the medical relief ? Would there not be a large amount of overlapping by your suggestion ?—There would be. 69899. Tlieref ore it naturally involves that one authority would be better for all the work, does it not ?—All save one would go to the wall, and the line of least resistance would have to be borne down. That is all I can say. of 69900. At the present time do you find there is any y of difficulty in poor people getting proper medical assistance, and getting it expeditiously, in these agricultural dis- ® tricts ?—I referred that question to two or three persons who are good judges, and they remarked that when it is plain sailing the only difficulty is the extreme outlying country villages ; but that in cases of epidemic, where there is a strain, the difficulty comes in. That is my point, that it works well enough when everything is going 8.nooth, but when there is a strain, then they do not get so much attention as they ought. But the great deficiency ia the case of the poor people is the want of nm-sing. In regard to drugs, I think they get perhaps more than is good for them, and they get visits from the medical man, but they do not get nursing, and they cannot get nursing. 69901. Could not the difficulty of the nurses be got Mr. Edwyn over now ; is there not power enough to subscribe to J■ Slade- nursing associations, provided societies were set up by ■^^^S'j M.D., people who are interested in the question ? Boards of m^^qp guardians have power to subscribe, I think, but I do not i^ond ' know whether rural district councils have ?—I may '_ answer you that I think a district council has power to July, 1907. baill cottiges for the poor and to grant allotments, but does not avail itsslf often of this power. Question as 69902. If the authorities that we have now do not do po^®''^ existmff all these things for the poor that we think may be neces- authorities to sary, how are you to expect that another authority which provide you are going to set up will do the very thing that the nurses, present authorities do not do when they have power to cottage do it ?—But I would make it compulsory on these people hospitals, etc. to see that it was done. ^^nd need of making such 69903. Why cannot you make it compulsory on the powers com- county council now to see that it is done, if it is necessary ? pulsory. —Well, county councils are not easily compelled. 69904. You will agree, wiU you not, that it is not wise to multiply authorities for doing the same thing when power has already been obtained for doing it ?—My idea was, with all due respect to this Commission, that guardians as they now exist, are not exactly the men to deal with it. You have the inspection of school children coming in; who is to be the authority to deal with that ? 69905. I had in my mind the county councils when I made that remark ?—I beg yoiu- pardon, I thought you meant the local coimcils. 69906. The county councils have power to build these hospitals which you suggest, and power to do other things which they do not do ?—If they have power to do it you must make it compulsory. It is no use giving these people the power to do it when you do not compel them to do it. 69907. At the present time the sanitary authority has Reluctance power to provide health visitors and to pay for them out of existing of the rates and for their being instructed by the medical authorities to officer of health of the district as to then- duties. That j^PPj^J]!' would cover the ground, would it not, that you suggest ^j^j^Qjg with regard to teaching the mothers how to train their infants and so on. ? Health visitors could be appointed 510W everjrwhere, provided there was the mind to do it, could they not ?—Yes, but the difficulty is that these authorities have no mind to do it. It is a question of pounds, shillings and pence to a very great extent. Of course, they want to be popular with their constituents and they want votes, and they do not want to do anything that shoves up the rates. What do many men care about rearing children in comparison with rearing cattle ? 69908. Usually you get a good class of men on the county councils, do yoa not ?—Yes. 6990^. And it i^ the county council that I have in my mind just now which has all these powers ?—Yes, I am with you. 69910. If another authority had to be established it would mean that the rates would still go up, therefore there would be the same objection on the rate account that there would be at the present time and no guarantee that you would get what you wanted ?—I fancied, unless I misunderstood you, that you fell in with the idea of a delegated body from the county council, like the educa- tion committees, to whom they would delegate that special work. 69311. Yes ?—I do not see that it would be more ex- pensive—but that is the body to whom you should also add nominees from the Local Government Board for this purf)ose. 69912. {2Ir. Booth.) Is the final cost to come out of the rates, or out of the Exchequer ?—The cost should come out of the county rate, but the grants would come in the same way that they do from the Imperial Exchequer. 69913. And the fact of that grant would give a power of instigition, and, if necessary, compulsion ?—That is exactly what I meant to say ; I, perhaps, did not convey i J, but that is my idea. 69914. (Mr. BentJuim.) Supposing we take the things as they are now, and see if much could not be done in the way of getting your ideas v/ith regard to mothers with infants and teaching them. Could not the county council be induced at the present time to appoint a