Special report from the Select Committee on the Medical Act (1858) Amendment (No. 3) Bill [Lords] : together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, and appendix.

  • Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons. Select Committee on the Medical Act (1858) Amendment (No. 3) Bill.
Date:
1879
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Licence: Public Domain Mark

Credit: Special report from the Select Committee on the Medical Act (1858) Amendment (No. 3) Bill [Lords] : together with the proceedings of the Committee, minutes of evidence, and appendix. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by Royal College of Physicians, London. The original may be consulted at Royal College of Physicians, London.

    112/456 (page 98)
    Mr. Simon, C.B., F.R.S. l July 1879. Dr. Lyon Playfair—continued, be passed by university students, but only the last and final examination ; is not that so ?—Yes. It was thought that the only compromise upon which they could all agree (in a voluntary system) was that the university certificate should be accepted for the earlier examination or examinations: that is to say, for those prior to the last two years of study. 1231. I will read what it says: “ Any can- didate for a medical or surgical degree or license granted by any of the English universities co- operating in the formation of the conjoint board is required to go through the course appointed by his university, and to pass the third or final exa- mination of the conjoint board that was agreed to; and, further, it was agreed that instead of paying the 301. which was provided here, the university students should only in their last exa- mination pay five guineas ; is not that the fact that that is the conjoint scheme ?—You rightly read what is there, but I understood you were asking my opinion upon it. 1232. Did the deliberations of the conjoint authorities who framed this scheme come to that as the wisest thing to recommend ?—It is the fact; I only care to press that the question was one of a voluntary system. Chairman (Mr. Plunhet). 1233. I understand you wish to say that although that is quite a correct report of the Chairman (Mr. Plunhet)—continued, scheme, you are not to be taken as agreeing in that opinion ?—If this instead of being a volun- tary system were a compulsory system, I think it would not be desirable to accept it in exactly the form in which it stands, but to require some par- ticipation of the conjoint authority in those scien- tific examinations of the individual authority; and, subject to that qualification, I should at the pre- sent time be quite prepared to recommend the acceptance of the same principle in Scotland with regard to the matter of the earlier examinations. Dr. Lyon Playfair. 1234. Then in fact you would be very much inclined to follow the system of the “ Staats Examen ” in Germany. I am speaking from a Report of the Committee of the Medical Council on Medical Education, where they describe the system to be a decentralised one, where the State examiners are sent to the university towns, and are associated with the university professors, and, in the university towns, examine for a license ; is that what I understand you to mean ?—I am not familiar enough with the German system to use it as an illustration, but as regards Scotland I should think the scheme might very properly provide for the acceptance of the examinations in anatomy and physiology of the separate univer- sities, provided the conjoint authority were re- presented in those examinations. Mr. FORSTER took the Chair. Dr. Lyon Playfair. 1235. What you want to obtain is efficiency in the examinations of the different licensing bodies ?—Yes, and uniformity. 1236. But you do not attach the same import- ance to one uniform system as you would to a thorough proof of the efficiency of examinations? —The uniformity to be secured is only this, that none shall be below a minimum. 1237. If you had the security that the ex- aminations were efficient, and that the scale was not below a minimum, that would answer your purpose, would it not; do you see any more advantage in uniformity in intellectual life than you would see in uniformity in physical life; what you want is proof of efficiency, not a dead uniformity ?—I am not aware that anybody con- tends for uniformity in the sense of your question; the contention is that there shall be no one admitted to the profession below a certain level of knowledge, which level no doubt is a uniform one, but there is no restriction imposed on what there shall be above that level. 1238. Supposing you give to the Medical Council the most ample powers, not only to in- spect, but to control the examinations of the universities by reporting upon their examinations; would that not be as effective as the dead level of uniformity through a conjoint board ? — I think not. 1239. Why not?—Because I think the inspec- tion would be impossible, except by a system of permanent assessors, which would be but a joint board under another name. 1240. Is it not a fact that the Medical Board raised the examinations throughout the whole kingdom by all bodies?—I think the Medical Council has raised the standard. Dr. Lyon Playfair—continued. 1241. If you had the same power, could not you carry out the same result in a more efficient manner?—I do not think so, if you mean powers of the same sort. 1242. I do not mean of the same sort, but I mean powers of drawing the attention of the Privy Council to the fact that the licensing body is not doing its duty, and is not carrying out the examinations efficiently, and that such a body being in default should be deprived of its power of licensing ?—As a matter of practice I cannot conceive in our day faults in examining boards so very gross that they would be commonly held to justify representations of that kind. 1243. If the faults are not very gross, why is there any necessity for interfering with them ?— Because the present system does not give suffi- cient security to the public. 1244. Let us now see what is the effect of this Bill with regard to uniformity ; is there any scheme of a conjoint board practically in this Bill?—No. 1245. There are various exceptions, are there not, to it ; there is no one-portal system for each of the divisions of the kingdom?—There is a one-portal system for each. 1246. If there were a single' system, as soon as a man knocked at the gate, if he is properly qualified, he enters ; but has he not to enter a second portal after he has entered at the first portal ?—Not a second examining portal. 1247. But has he not to enter the second portal before he can be said to have entered through the door of the conjoint board ?—That is so-; but you are aware, of course, that the second is not to be an examining authority for the purpose. 1248. That