Interim report.

  • Great Britain. Royal Commission on Whiskey and other Potable Spirits.
Date:
1908-1909
Catalogue details

Licence: In copyright

Credit: Interim report. Source: Wellcome Collection.

Provider: This material has been provided by London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service. The original may be consulted at London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine Library & Archives Service.

    29/884 (page 11)
    232. Could you give us any figure ?—No ; I cannot give you any Hgure. I know that some patent still is bonded for a considerable time. 233. You do know that?—Yes. 2M. But the greater part for a comparatively shorter time?—Yes, the greater part would be for a much shorter time than the pot still spirit. 235. (Dr. G. S. Buchanan.) I understand there is no official definition of whiskey in any sense for Excise purposes?—No, we do not know of such a thing. 236. And it is not differentiated as whiskey in any official return?—No. 237. You told us about the duty on spirits. I gather that that is subject to certain allowances as regards evaporation, and one thing and another. The allowance includes an allowance m respect of loss of spirit due to ageing, does it not?—Of course, that is really what it is in effect, but we always charge upon the proof quantity which we find. If the proof quan- tity which we find in the whiskey is less than what we consider it should be after making the regulation allowance, then the owner of the spirits is called upon to pay the difference. That is what we call a chargeable deficiency. 238. Is there a less profit to the Revenue in the case of an older spirit, a spirit that has matured for two or three years in bond, than in the case of the new ?—No, it is exactly the same. 239. You mentioned the increase of spirits distilled about 1899 and 1901-2. The spirits distilled in the United Kingdom in those years were considerably more than in the years before and in the years since, fs there any broad explanation of that ?—I do not think I gave you that. I simply gave you the quan- tities which were in warehouse for those years. 240. Not the quantities distilled?—No, not the quantities distilled. I have them here. 241. There was a considerable increase, was there not, about the year 190O?—Yes, the biggest year is the previous year, 1898-9, that is the year ending 30th September, 1899. That is the biggest year we have. 242. I do not want to elaborate the point, but could you say generally is there any general explanation for the great increase about that time?—I really do not know. It is simply what is known in the trade. I believe, as the whiskey boom. There were a number ■of new distilleries started about that time, and just before, and the stocks, of course, went up accordingly. 243. You mentioned certain distilleries where yeast making is the principal trade?—I would not say principal. 244. Or one of the principal?—It is a very im- portant branch. 245. Could you tell us where they specially are? In locality, are they mainly in the North of Ireland ?— No, I think there are more in Scotland. I am sorry I have not those figures with me. 246. You can, perhaps, give us a list of them?— Yes, if necessary. 247. I think that would be necessary?—That is TeaUy giving information about individual distilleries. I could give you the number of the distilleries in each of the three kingdoms, if that would suit you? I really only sit here as an official, but I am ready to give anything that is necessary. 248. With regard to materials used, I gather that the distiller gives certain returns or certain informa- tion to the Excise authorities as regards the materials of which his wort is composed ?—^Yes. 249. You take those from the distiller ?—Yes. 250. _ There is no special control by the Excise authorities as to what he uses, but the distiller tells the Excise authorities what he does use?—Yes. 251. That can always be checked, I presume?—No, I do not think it can. 252. You would know if you had an inaccurate return, perhaps ?—Within certain limits only. 253. Does the distiller keep books which show, as a rule, what his ingredients are?—No doubt he does. 254. And the Excise officer would have access to them if he wanted ?—No. Of course, as you know, we have e 11 access to all his premises. We can see what he has Mr. A. J. got there. Tedder. 255. With regard to the knowledge which you told ^ March us that the Excise officers have of the spirits in bonded jqqq; warehouses, I-understood that in distihery warehouses (correct me if I am wrong) you know practically the composition of any spirit that is there, that is to say, the time at which it was distilled, its specific gravity, and other things about it, and you know what additions have been made to it in bond?—Yes. ; 256. In a distillery warehouse you practically know everything with regard to it?^Yes. 257. But in outside bonded warehouses—what is the appropriate term for them?—General warehouses. 258. Yes, in general warehouses, blends may take place of spirits which come from other warehouses?— Yes. 259. And in that way the record of the origin of the different spirits would be lost, or might be lost?— That is so. 260. It would require some re-arrangement at any rate to trace it—some arrangement of forms and things which you do not possess at present?—Yes. 261. Are any of the particulars that are available to the Inland Revenue Excise authorities as a result of their supervision also available to the trade in any way—for example, as to age? Are any particulars that are given to the Inland Revenue authorities, or are required by the Inland Revenue authorities, about age available to purchasers or to traders?—All spirits except blended spirits have the year of origin marked on the cask. 262. They have the last year?—If they are blended at a distillery they have the last year, and if they are blended in a general warehouse they have what we call the Operation Year—that is, the time that they were operated upon. 263. Is there any reference either by mark on the cask or otherwise to any documents or books which will show what has happened to the spirits at the time of operation?—We could trace the account in our books, that is, every cask is identified in our books. 264. Are particulars as to the origin or the nature of particular blends ever given for export purposes?— No. 265. Are they ever asked for to comply with the food laws of foreign countries?—No. 266. There are some Australian regulations, are there not, about the time which spirits must be kept in bond?—Yes, they have a regulation to the effect that the spirits must have matured two years in wood. 267. Do the authorities assist in any way there?— We do not. 268. It is left to the declaration by the exporter?—• Yes. 269. Does the keeping of foreign spirits such as rum and brandy in bond come much under the Excise supervision, or is that mainly the Customs work?— It comes to us because in all general warehouses we have foreign spirits, but the Customs deal particularly, and I might say they deal entirely, with the importa- tion regulations. 270. You can tell me this, no doubt. Are there not some distinctions that are made between foreign spirits ?_ For instance, you recognise, do you not, rum and artificial rum in the case of foreign spirit ?—Yes. There will be a Customs witness here presently, and perhaps he can deal with that. 271. That is why I asked the question. You told us about methylated spirits made from molasses. Could yon say whether, when it is made from mo- lasses, it_ is cheaper than the cheapest form of patent still spirit that could be got from grain ?—I can hardly give a reply to that. I should think it is, or else they would not have it. It is the cheapest form of patent still spirit that is made. 272. You told us about the practice of the dealers who purchase or obtain blended whiskey or blended spirit from bond. They have to receive a certificate or the person who supplies the spirit has to give the Excise officer a request ?—Yes ; a permit. 273. There are particulars that are entered in the permit. I see there are marks and numbers of B 2